Posted by
tohu.vavohu on Monday, January 07, 2008 3:36:38 PM
I've tried to weigh Huckabee with the other candidates to see if he was feasible and deserving of my vote but I keep coming to a resounding no. But after the Iowa caucuses there might be a possibility I would have to mark on my ballot, come the general elections this year for President, for Mike Huckabee. So as I watched the Fox Forum last night, Sunday, January 6, 2008 Mike Huckabee did something that made me lose more respect for the man. It was in an interchange between Mike Huckabee, Mitt Romney, and Chris Wallace:
WALLACE: Governor Huckabee, at an earlier debate, you had a memorable exchange with Governor Romney about your plan that would have allowed the children of illegals in-state tuition to college. And, at the time, you said we shouldn’t punish children from the actions of their parents.
On the other hand, shortly after that, you came out with a very tough immigration plan, which mandates that all illegals must leave the country and return to their home within 120 days if they want to become legals. Aren’t you in effect, in that plan, punishing those very children that you said you didn’t want to punish?
HUCKABEE: Not at all, because as long as those children are here and people question their authenticity for being here, they live in the shadows. They live hiding.
No person living in the United States of America, Chris, ought to live in the shadows, ought to live in fear, ought to hide. The beauty of this country is we live with our heads up. We live with dignity, we live with pride, we live with honor, and as long as people are living illegally, they can’t.
And I know I’m going to be questioned, do I still stand by that idea that we treat the children differently, who didn’t commit a crime? And let me just be very clear, yes, I do stand beside that, because I don’t think you punish a child for what a parent did.
Now, the fact is, under the plan that I put forth — and it’s tough. It says build a fence. It does say after you have a fence, I believe built by American laborers with American material, people should be asked to go back and get in the back of the line. The only place to get in the back of the line is in their home country. There’s no line here.
ROMNEY: How about the kids in school, them, too, or not?
HUCKABEE: Mitt, I’m talking to Chris right now, if you don’t mind.
WALLACE: Well, that is actually a question I was going to ask.
HUCKABEE: Well, you can ask it, but I’ve decided that you’re the moderator of the debate, not Mitt, and he’s tried to engage me in this.
And I appreciate you very much, but I believe I’ll let Chris be the moderator here.
WALLACE: What about the children in school?
HUCKABEE: Well, here’s the point. If the families go back, they’re going to take their children with them. And when those children go back and then they get in line and they get back into the United States, then this issue is resolved.
The reason we have the problem we have is because our federal government has broken it, has caused it to be dysfunctional, and we’ve got to get it fixed.
The one thing I do agree, whether it’s with Senator McCain, Mayor Giuliani, Fred Thompson, anyone here, is that this problem isn’t going to get solved by seeing if we can throw flash words at each other. It’s going to get solved when we sit down like reasonable human beings and decide that we’ve got to do something that fixes the problem by sealing the border, first and foremost. But I absolutely believe that as a governor, I had to educate those kids. That wasn’t an option for me. The mayor had the same situation in New York. By law, you educate children and, also, it doesn’t make sense to turn kids out on the street, because then you’re going to end up with a much bigger problem in the education policy.
WALLACE: Governor, I’m going to give you 30 seconds…
HUCKABEE: OK.
WALLACE: … because we need to move on.
Thirty seconds. If you have the child of an illegal immigrant and he is in high school in Little Rock, and now under the Huckabee – President Huckabee’s plan, he and his family all have to move back to Mexico, aren’t you punishing that kid? He’s a sophomore in high school and now he’s been dragged out of Little Rock, and he’s living in Tijuana.
HUCKABEE: I guess his parents could leave him there if he’s a senior in high school, but I think most families, particularly if you understand about most of the immigrant families, they’re a family-loving people. These are not people that want to split their families up, they want to keep their families together.
They come here for their families, Chris. They come here so their kids will have an opportunity. They come here so their kids have groceries to eat.
These are people who don’t come here because they’re escaping wealth so they can come to poverty. They’re escaping poverty so they can have a chance to have wealth.
And the point I’m making is that if we’re going to have this problem fixed, let’s actually fix it. And all the rhetoric that we’ve thrown out about who is more for amnesty and who is less for amnesty, I mean, a lot of that is pure nonsense.
What we need to do is say, seal the border, have a plan to get in the back of the line. No free rides.
We won’t have amnesty. And I think every one of us, including John McCain, agrees with that. Get a system that we can live it, and then let’s don’t ever make this mistake again.
We all love to invoke the name of Ronald Reagan. Let’s not forget, with all due respect, Ronald Reagan was the one who signed the amnesty bill back in the ’80s that’s given us the mess now.
We all love him, we all want to be like him, but even Ronald Reagan can make mistakes. And we need to fix the mistake.
Not engaging Mitt Romney and his question was extremely rude and inappropriate. It was condescending and patronizing. Mr. Huckabee didn't even acknowledge Mr. Romney with eye contact, he stared forward and treated Mr. Romney like wallpaper. I remember acting that way to people back in high school. When I did it, it was to tick people off and try and make them out to be a ignoramus a bother. It was the ultimate rude factor to deliver. Astonishingly I've seen children do the same thing, "I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to Joe Blow so please don't talk to me! I don't like you." After listening and watching the exchange, frustrated and a bit angry, I stood up and pronounced, "What an [donkey derriere]!" Are you sitting there saying, "tohu, chill out, it was nothing. Let it go, Huckabee was only keeping the discussion moving forward." Alright, I will buy that but only if he didn't have the following exchange moments earlier with Mr. Fred Thompson about Guantanamo:
WALLACE: I want to move on to another subject, but I want to give a couple of people time to clean up here.
You got a mention of you, Governor Huckabee. You start. One minute.
HUCKABEE: On the Guantanamo issue, I felt we should keep it open until the court case had come down indicating that there was no real substantive difference in whether they were in Guantanamo or Leavenworth. And I think that sort of changes the picture.
The fact is, I don’t care what the rest of the world thinks. I care what America thinks. And it’s become a divisive issue.
I went to Guantanamo, I visited it. Quite frankly, I visited every prison in my state. I know a little bit about the difference between what we operate and what we were operating at Guantanamo.
It wasn’t that it wasn’t too bad. The truth is, it was too darn good.
The conditions down there were amazingly hospitable. I thought a little bit too much for my taste, considering what these people had done.
HUCKABEE: So it’s a matter of believing that we ought to have policy that brings this country together and not tears it apart. I don’t think where we keep these people is as important as it is that we keep them and we don’t let them go.
THOMPSON: They get certain rights if they come here. They could get habeas corpus rights, being physically here, that they wouldn’t otherwise get if they were in Guantanamo.
HUCKABEE: The courts are in a case right now to decide whether or not that that’s going to be held.
THOMPSON: As they are in Guantanamo. I mean, that’s the assumption that they will be there.
HUCKABEE: But what I’m saying is if they’re going to be the same…
THOMPSON: If they’re going to be brought here…
HUCKABEE: … in Leavenworth as Guantanamo, it shouldn’t matter where they are geographically.
THOMPSON: That’s not the situation. It would be different if they were in Guantanamo — I mean, if they were in Leavenworth.
WALLACE: I want to move on to immigration...
Mr. Huckabee was more than willing to have a discussion with Mr. Thompson about Guantanamo. Without even a hint of not acknowledging Thompson's direct retort to his statements. He willingly engaged Thompson's inquiry for about a minute, giving back and forth exchanges about four times.
What he did to Mitt Romney was sad, uncalled for, and inappropriate. It was a mini replay of what all the candidates did on the Saturday debate, dog pile Romney. And they keep calling Romney's compare and contrast ads divisive and attacking. I don't see personal attacks like others are lumping on to Romney. It's not working on me. In fact, it's ticking me off.
Mr. Huckabee, that was rude and I didn't appreciate it.
And did you follow Mr. Huckabee on the illegal immigration stuff? I didn't. It didn't make sense, first he has a responsibility to give kids an education [I can't argue about elementary and high school because I don't know what the law requires or allows right now, but I didn't know the state[s] have a responsibility to give kids a college education. If that's true, I would like a refund or get covered for more college education, because I thought the issue for that was his backing a bill that would have given instate college tuition to the children of illegal immigrants, which in the last major election Arizona voted no on.], but then he said the families, with their children, would have to go back to their own country to stand in the back of the line [So that means they can't get instate college tuition? Or get an education in the lower grades? Because they are the children of illegals and ipso facto illegal?], but then apparently they can leave the kid to finish high school [so what happens after he's finished with high school? Back of the line?], all the while not really answering the direct question[s] and adding fluff and using an emotional argument about kids eating and poverty.
I had a discussion with my mom about the idea of instate college tuition and "punishing the children for what the parents have done." She pointed out the verses found in Exodus 5, 34, and Deuteronomy 5 [red hearing "honorable mention": 1 Cor. 15:22] that say, "For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me..." and don't "...keep My commandments." But be clear of the distinction between this and what is required in making a decision of who should be put to death for the father's/son's sin in Deuteronomy 24 and Ezekiel 18. I think there is an argument for children reaping and ipso facto shouldering the burden of a fathers iniquity. A father who does not obey the law of the United States by coming here illegally doesn't have a child who is miraculously made legal. The father has put the burden of being illegal on his children. Isn't the father who has done a disservice to his son? Shouldn't the father have gone through the proper channels to become legal so his children would have the ability to obtain instate tuition? Let's say a person comes into the United States illegally when his children are young, like the age of 5. To give his children the best opportunity and access to all rights of a citizen, shouldn't he be trying for 13+ years to become legal? Isn't that the responsibility of the father? But let's say he comes illegally when they are older, like 16. Isn't it the father who has made a choice of not trying to do something earlier to become legal and has has caused a burden to try and become legal for a teenager that will soon become an adult? I was talking to an elderly gentleman and he brought up the current view of the younger generation that they want all the benefits of being married without actually going through the process of being truly married [the sex, the living together, the economic help, the status, the children, et al.]. Isn't giving instate tuition just like that? People want all the benefits of being a citizen, or being an instate citizen, without actually going through the process of becoming a citizen? [If it's broke, or hard, let's fix it but let's follow and not deny the rules and structure we currently have. We should work inside the confines of what we have until we have something else. That's what we need to do. red hearing: shoot I'm going to be responsible for paying a tax because my parents will die!] Am I off on this? That's a legit question, not rhetorical.
I just don't see Huckabee as a candidate for me. I don't like his idea for banning smoking in public places [2] [3],
I don't like his views and record of what he did and tried to do on
immigration, I don't agree with his views on Guantanamo, I don't like
populist views, I don't like the big bad corporations talk [Larry Kudlow + he sounds like my friends -- corporate greed, the United States is all about materialism; that's why we suck, we're greedy, his personal attack on the Leno show
[55 sec. in] and on the campaign trail, et al. I'm not even close to being in the middle class
but I'm sick of the rhetoric. I don't buy it.], I don't like his views
on Wall Street, I don't like his speeches he's delivered on foreign
policy [truly sounds like Jimmy Carter or Barack Obama] [2],
I don't like that he was clueless of the NIE report and wasn't clear on
current events in Pakistan, or clear on immigration statistics [trying
to make them fit into a square peg], I don't appreciate his use of his
faith [if he is going to use it, own it], I'm not sure how to take his
lifting of the Cuba embargo even though he changed positions on it [2],
and having Michael Medved be an apologist on him isn't helping [he
was/is wrong on the amnesty/immigration bill, he was/is wrong about
McCain, and he's wrong on a lot of his points with Huckabee].
~tohu.va.vohu